As I have previously stated it is quite rare that I blog about my feelings about things going on with Oracle in the MySQL community, others do this a lot better than me, but a blog post I've seen today has pushed me to write something about how I feel.
To me it implies that IOUG are trying to put themselves as the leaders of the MySQL community. I personally feel that they need to earn our trust first before trying this move.
I see that they mention the Collaborate conference, but no mention of the O'Reilly MySQL Conference & Expo (what I feel is the biggest social event on the MySQL calendar). Not only this but the Collaborate conference runs at the same time as the MySQL Conference. I don't feel this is a good start at earning trust.
EDIT: by the above I meant that promoting one but not the other as implied leaders of the community doesn't feel like a good start... Not that the timing was intentional. I should really blog *after* morning coffee :)
These are my personal feelings on the matter and they may not be shared by others, we are a community and are not going to all agree. But it would be good if IOUG could give us some confidence in this matter.
I should note that the quote that triggered me to talk about IOUG consuming the MySQL Community is this:
ReplyDelete"The pulse of our community, combined with the ongoing thirst of IOUG members to learn from each other, makes me feel downright excited about welcoming the MySQL community into the larger Oracle users community."
Honestly IOUG is just before O’Reilly's conference which is not so bad for European speakers :)
ReplyDeleteMySQL Conf is 11-14th April 2011
ReplyDeleteCollaborate Conf is 10-14th April 2011
So I think they will clash (apart from the first day). Also they are on opposite sides of the country this time around.
Andrew,
ReplyDeleteI believe you haven't checked your facts enough.
First, the "I" in IOUG means "independent", and after cooperating with them for seven months I can tekl you that they take such independence very seriously.
Second, the IOUG has never tried to boss itself as leader of the MySQL community. Quite the contrary, they have respectfully offered assistance to the new product under Oracle, as they have done for other new borns or acquired products in the past. I have introduced many members of the community to the IOUG and then I have stepped aside, to let MySQL users speak to old Oracle users and decide for themselves if they want to become friends. So far, I have only seen satisfaction from both sides.
Third, I don't think that the dates clash should be blamed on Collaborate. I don't have final information on that, but theree is indication that O'Reilly booked their dates after Collaborate was already set.
I invite you to talk to the IOUG people, and see for yourself if they deserve trust or not.
Cheers
Giuseppe
Hi Giuseppe,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments. I would certainly like to hear more about IOUG and where they stand on certain issues. I would be the first to admit I'm wrong (and most likely I am).
I have no doubt that the date clash is pure coincidence as both conferences have been around the same time every year.
I would really like to see IOUG involved in MySQL Conference in some way, although I suspect timing makes that very hard to do.
Andrew
ReplyDeleteLike most conferences that attract thousands of users, venues must be secured years in advance. This is the case with Collaborate, as contracts were signed over 3 years ago. The IOUG is indeed, an independent group of technology professionals. Approximately half or more of the IOUG membership are MySQL users...many of whom had been asking for MySQL content to be incorporated into the conference Even prior to Oracle's acquisition of Sun. been
When Sun was acquired by Oracle it made sense for the IOUG to expand its conference offerings to include MySQL content, and that occurred at their conference in Las Vegas this past April.
I wholeheartedly agree with your premise that trust needs to be earned. Having said that, the IOUG has positioned itself as a partner in the community, and has networking with several customer and vendor leaders in this community, along with Oracle...to ensure that it has offerings that their current MySQL members can leverage. To the extent that it can also provide complementary value to the broader community, I would think that this is a good thing. I am confident that the goal of the IOUG is to coexist and collaborate as they do with a number of the other user group communities that support the global Oracle ecosystem including the UKOUG in your area.
I know that they IOUG is already partnering with Percona and others to ensure that they are adding value to the Oracle (and by extension) MySQL community.
I comment on this from a unique perspective....as I was a member of a perceived competitor user group (Quest International) and was on their Board of Directors. I am now a member of both organizations. The way I look at it - being involved with multiple user groups adds value back to my organization, and allows me to get the best bang for my investment.
Hi John,
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt the timing of the two conferences was pure coincidence. I perhaps did not word the original posting correctly around this.
I think your definition of community is different to my definition of it.
I think the key difference in definition of community here comes from John's comment ... "with several customer and vendor leaders in this community". Therein lies the difference... for Oracle, the community are all vendors and customers, as there is no other way to be involved. (That's not intended as a knock, it's just a fact when the software in question is proprietary.) For MySQL, when I use the word community I'm not thinking of the words customers or vendors at all. I don't, in fact, see the MySQL Community as part of the greater Oracle community, because I don't see MySQL as a sub-set of Oracle in any way other than that the company that happens to be called MySQL has been purchased by Oracle. Both Oracle and MySQL may be part of the greater database community, but as a member of the MySQL community I can tell you quite explicitly that I am NOT a member of the Oracle community.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I am all for open collaboration and I welcome the opportunity to get to know new people, and talk about solving our shared problems. I think the idea to have cross pollination is wonderful, and I will agree with Giuseppe, the folks I've met and talked to from the IOUG have been nothing but wonderful. Just as I view the fine folks from PostGreSQL as friends and colleagues, I hope the same can be said in the future of the folks from IOUG. But just because Oracle bought Sun which owned the MySQL trademark, please don't assume that automatically makes me and my community a sub-set of yours. If anything, we are equal brethren who are now more aware of each other. I look forward to learning more about you, and for you to learn more about me.
Monty,
ReplyDeleteI agree with your comments, and the IOUG is very cognizant of the fact that the MySQL community is unique and different from most of the other Oracle (or other vendor based) communities. There is also a recognition that the MySQL community, and the JAVA community and many other communities are self sufficient, and not going to be a sub-set of another community/group/association. I hope that none of my comments led anyone to have that notion.
At my government agency, though we are members of numerous vendor specific communities, we also leverage communities and conferences that are not vendor specific. I send people to OSCON, and consider my organization to be a "member" or participant in that broad community as well.
It seems to me that we are all pretty much on the same page...and that where there are some vendor specific community relationships that have been built and will remain, that everyone will be able to continue doing that which they do, while enhancing their value proposition through approrpaite levels of collaboration.
Open Source is Open Source, regardless of who lays claim to it through acquisition or other means :)
Here's what I'm unclear about -- the post you refer to is "welcoming the MySQL community". That means they're saying "hi, you are welcome where we are". That's not them taking over anything. That's them saying "we would be happy to have you." How does that imply that they're the leaders of the MySQL community?
ReplyDeleteIf someone says "Andrew, you're welcome in my house any time you want" do you say "YOU HAVE TO EARN MY TRUST BEFORE YOU INVITE ME OVER"??? It's just odd.
iOUG has sponsored several MySQL webinars and presentations with well-known MySQL experts such as myself, Ronald Bradford and Matt Yonkovit of Percona.
As for the timing of the conference, I heard about Collaborate just after the 2010 Collaborate was over, at the end of April. When I heard that the O'Reilly conference was scheduled at the same time as Collaborate, I immediately e-mailed Gina Blaber, VP of conferences for O'Reilly, to tell her about the conflict. This was June 22nd. So it was fully 2 months AFTER I'd heard about Collaborate .... so you should ask yourself why O'Reilly set the dates the same.
In Gina's own words: "We'll definitely try to put out the word about the fact that we didn't know about the Collaborate event when we signed the MySQL Conference venue contract." Looks like that wasn't conveyed well. Let me know if you want me to send you the whole context.
For what it's worth, I was very clear that the conferences were at the same time: http://technocation.org/content/call-presentations-collaborate-2011-open!
The O'Reilly conference doesn't mention Collaborate either.
I hope this has changed the conclusions you jumped to. I'm still unclear why you think IOUG is trying to put themselves as the leaders....The original article by Andy is very clear with sentences like:
"First, IOUG is looking forward to providing a platform for MySQL users to gather virtually and physically year-round."
"We are excited about working with the MySQL community to integrate into COLLABORATE this coming spring. And we could not be more excited about the year-round opportunity to work as a group of peers sharing common concerns and experiences to find practical success from promising software."
Hi Sheeri,
ReplyDeleteI may well have misinterpreted their "Welcome" message in the same way you misinterpreted my blog post. Although I made sure in advance that I was not the only one that saw it that way first.
I've said several times here that I'm sure the dates are a coincidence since both are booked way in advance.
I did not say Collaborate should advertise the UC or visa-versa. Just that if IOUG is "independent" is should probably advertise both and if possible have presence in both.
Andrew,
ReplyDeleteHow did I misinterpret your blog post?
IOUG is independent of Oracle, the company. However, they are one of the three groups that organize and have a financial stake in the Collaborate conference. Therefore, it makes as much sense for IOUG to advertise for the O'Reilly conference as it does for O'Reilly to advertise Collaborate.
The last time I heard, Oracle owned the "MySQL(tm)" trademark, as a consequence of the well-known series of acquisitions. And they are known for being reasonably jealous guardians of what they consider belongs to them...
ReplyDeleteIf someone wants to put on a conference that doesn't have its very name owned by them, methinks it's needful to leave "MySQL(tm)" out of the name. The "LibreOffice" folks have been discovering that - witness the recent controversy where Oracle has demanded that the "community members" of OpenOffice.org resign...